I still can't believe you are still saying that some random gasses were just there. Take spontaneous generation, for example: People believed that things could spontaneoulsy generate. However, it was proven wrong. And now we know that everything has to have some kind of parent(s). Just a bunch of random gasses being there makes no sense. Yes, I know you are thinking "Creation makes even less sense!", However, forget about creation for the moment. You are trying to prove to me how something got there when nothing was there before. I've given you my theory, now give me yours. And don't just say, "It was just there!" I won't accept that as an answer. I told you how a supernatural being could have the power to create a universe, and always exist. Now you tell me how those random gasses got there.

Its not like you have done anything to change his point of view.

Now answer me this. Forget the random gases. Your going to explain to me how God was there. You can't, just like we can't say how it was just there.

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Xtreme is a ****head.

No...you haven't explained how the supernatural being came to be. That's like me asking you if the chicken or the egg came first and you saying "Well the first chicken hatched from an egg". Where the hell did the egg come from? Luckly, your theory has it's own built in response to this question. God has always been there. Why as he always been there? He just has. Hmmm...that sounds familiar.

Anyways, you totally miss what I've been saying. I'm not trying to prove to you how the universe started, no one can do that. I'm trying to prove to you that my theory on it makes more sense, and you implied that it does in your post, so I win.

A mod can lock this topic now...I won.

you believe that a mass of energy with no physical properties whatsoever that even remotely hint at it being able to exist for all of eternity existed for all of eternity and that somehow that mass of energy turned into a complicated universe and created life from non-life, and creationists are the ones influenced by society and believing in a far-fetched theory?

you were hinting at it yourself that believing in a god is the easy way out, and why is that? because god is unexplainable and something unexplainable must have existed first.


if you have to say you won then you haven't won.

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Imagine, stalking elk past department store windows and stinking racks of beautiful rotting dresses and tuxedos on hangers; you'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life, and you'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower.* Jack and the beanstalk, you'll climb up through the dripping forest canopy and the air will be so clean you'll see tiny figures pounding corn and laying strips of venison to dry in the empty car pool lane of an abandoned superhighway stretching eight-lanes-wide and August-hot for a thousand miles.</td></tr></table><div class='signature'>

lol its not really a "winnable" topic. about all we've established is that whether you accept evolution or creation, something, whether it just being the universe and all its inorganic, lifeless components from which living things started spontaneously generated from, or a divine being, God, who began the whole process by creating life and all things. Personally, i dont see how God making the whole thing work is illogical because it makes much more sense to me than life coming out of nowhere. The entire point of debate is about which is more "logical" according to goth's last post...evolution being the origin of the universe and life spawned from nothingness with no guidance of any kind lacks any and all logic as far as i'm concerned...

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Playground Legend

goth stfu tard u dont know **** about religions son.. ur just mad cause ur parents made u go to church so hush

dont talk again here u dont know **** about God or ur stupid mass of energy.. the mass of energy has powers and all that **** :lol:

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lol...well put

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Playground Legend

science has already proved exactly our galaxy was made.. and has therefore proved that the idea of "God" existing is merely what some people wish to believe to gain comfort of another life after death.

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Drunk: Your post is kind of confusing...but from what I can decipher, you think that how a mass of energy could form the universe is unexplainable. Then you go on to say that something unexplainable must have existed first. So...you're on my side now?

Latex: It's not illogical at all to think that, if there is an all powerful supreme being, he designed the universe. I'm saying it's illogical to think that a supreme being could just be born out of nothingness. Are you honestly saying that an extremely intelligent and complicated God is more likely to have "just been there" than a simple mass of energy? And if you don't know how that energy could form into the universe, read up on the big bang theory.

Emerson: To post in this thread you must be over the age of 10. Go back to the AOK forums, okay?

Nick: Well, it's not really proven, but the theories do make alot of sense and have evidence to back them up.

LOL you really have no clue what you are talking about, do you?

Quote:

Originally posted by _SP__EmersoN__@Nov 24 2006, 05:09 PM goth stfu tard u dont know **** about religions son.. ur just mad cause ur parents made u go to church so hush dont talk again here u dont know **** about God or ur stupid mass of energy.. the mass of energy has powers and all that ***** :lol:

Great, we finally got GoTh to post without insulting, now this idiot pops up.


I've kept away from this topic long enough now. The question is which sound more logical... A certain mass which has always existed (and not generated out of nothing like some of you insinuated), or a god who has always existed and created this mass out of nothing.
The creation theory has two issues which are hard to comprehend: something has always existed (a god) and something was created out of nothing (mass, by this god)
The other theory has only one such issue: the mass which has always existed.

So the heretic theory wins, imho.

<!--QuoteBegin-GoTh@Nov 24 2006, 10:38 AM
A mod can lock this topic now...I won. [/quote]
LOL :P So true!

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bunch of stupid people with no brain.. go read a book or something else

MASS OF ENERGY :lol: hahahahaha

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how would a bunch of stupid people w/ no brain read a book :S lol

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Playground Legend

the human mind can imagine a mass of energy and find all the properties that describe it. i'm saying whatever existed first is beyond our understanding and can't be described by anything or anyone because nothing exists or nothing is imaginable that can have just always been.

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Imagine, stalking elk past department store windows and stinking racks of beautiful rotting dresses and tuxedos on hangers; you'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life, and you'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower.* Jack and the beanstalk, you'll climb up through the dripping forest canopy and the air will be so clean you'll see tiny figures pounding corn and laying strips of venison to dry in the empty car pool lane of an abandoned superhighway stretching eight-lanes-wide and August-hot for a thousand miles.</td></tr></table><div class='signature'>

We can't comprehend the beginning of the universe?

Okay, that's it guys. We can't comprehend this. Lock the thread please.

I want to contribute to all of this, its ironic tho so bare with me.

Stephen Hawking wrote a book about this very subject, and the whole book was about the big bang and what not, telling EVERYTHING you could imagine and not imagine about the theory of the big bang. But--but but but-- The very end of the book, the very last sentence was (something like this)--

"God had to have existed."

Not saying I'd jump off a bridge if Hawking did, but I'm pretty hes alot smarter than Goth, or any of the other people on this forum, including me

Forgot the name of the book (My friend had it, I only read the last page seeing it was all about Quantum Physics and weird things along those lines), I'm sure it would be easy to find.

Point is -- Stephen Hawking said God existed, ironic eh seeing he was a diehard Bigbang/non-religion kind of guy.

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (banned @ Feb 18 2007, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i don't even know how to respond to such stupidity </td></tr></table><div class='signature'>

^^Owned.

stephen hawking makes me hot...

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Playground Legend

k, so because Stephen Hawking is smarter than me, he's right?

Stephen Hawking has pretty much devoted his life to understanding how the universe came to be. He's a strong believer in science, obviously. He also thinks that man kind is extremely destructive and that we won't live much longer. And by "live much longer", I mean the next 50-100 years. In your life time, you have a good chance of seeing the end of the human race according to him. And the scary thing is...he might be right.

I don't really care enough to look into it, but I doubt the theme of a book written by Stephen Hawking is "God existed". If he really did prove that god existed like the quote seems to say, I think I would already know about it.

Um...Goth, you didn't win. Sorry. Fact is, creation explains everything. Nothing else you've brought up does. For example, is it more likely that you'll make a loaf of bread, or that the flour and everything will come together and make bread? Obviously that you would make it. Now, of course you haven't always existed, but do you see my point? If you took a watch apart, and put all the pieces in a box, and then left it alone for billions of years, you wouldn't have a watch, or anything else that could possibly do something. Now, of course, there's other things out there in the universe that might have some impact on what happened. But those forces couldn't have just created themselves, could they? I'm just pointing out, your theory has some serious problems.

Ok, for a minute, just forget about anything always existing. What we would assume is that it's easier for some random gasses to be there, than a supernation Being (Forget about how they got there originally) However, it is much easier for a Supernatural Being to create something, than it is for some random gasses to create something. (just like the loaf of bread example)

I own. :P

I like your watch example.

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (banned @ Feb 18 2007, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i don't even know how to respond to such stupidity </td></tr></table><div class='signature'>

^^Owned.

A watch is an inianimate object. It can't move itself. But these gases, the thing that evolved weren't. They could all move and "Think" for themselves. Same with the bread one, inanimate objects. You put a dog in a box and leave it for a billion years, what will happen? It will die because it has no food. You got back 10000 years, and you will see Neanderthals going through the Ice Age, ahead 2000 years and whats this? No Neanderthals but new species much more like us? Ahead another 2000 years and the same thing.

I own :P

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Xtreme is a ****head.

why would you ever put a dog in a box and leave him there for a billion years, you sick freak.

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Playground Legend

Ok, whatever, put a lot of microorganisms with enough resources to last for billions of years. I'll bet my head they wouldn't create anything much different, much less create a rational human being, or universal laws. The same thing with random gasses.

gases are the exact same thing as watches, just things with no life or ability to think for themselves(even if they could, why would they evolve into a single celled creature that can't think for itself). not to mention the fact that his watch example leaves all of the "pieces" right next to each other and in a confined space, not free roaming in the entire universe without any means to evolve into life or characteristics of having life.

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Imagine, stalking elk past department store windows and stinking racks of beautiful rotting dresses and tuxedos on hangers; you'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life, and you'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower.* Jack and the beanstalk, you'll climb up through the dripping forest canopy and the air will be so clean you'll see tiny figures pounding corn and laying strips of venison to dry in the empty car pool lane of an abandoned superhighway stretching eight-lanes-wide and August-hot for a thousand miles.</td></tr></table><div class='signature'>

But these gases reacted, and formed new life forms.

Latex, it was an example.

Sld, thats why you think it, not know it. No one will ever know.

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Xtreme is a ****head.

After I read all the posts here and been thinking about the question in this thread a whole 10 min listening to my inspiring music, I came up with the following explanation. The universe came up from a big bang. Booooom from a single particle formed the vast universe as we know today. The proof that big bang is the source of universe is that this latter is still expanding. Now think if someone farted. The gases will expand to fill the room and if there was empty space it will try and fill more and more.

so, the universe came up after an explosion, gases got concentrated eventually creating other kinds of molecules. So basicly galaxies, planets, stars formed. Now the jump from no-life to life forms is what's intriguing me. There had to be some kind of force to make that happen. Anyway first living things were bacteria, prokaryotes evolved into eukaryotes, and so on untill we get to whatever complicated life forms we have today. I do believe there is evolution, and I believe all the **** darwin is saying except that the universe has always been existing.

Everyone agrees that there are laws according to which this universe is ruled. Gravitation law was there, from the beggining. it wasn't newton who invented it right? My point is these laws are ruling the universe but they have to have someone who made them the way they are. They didn't gather and say: hmmm this univeres is messed up, let's go and make some order in it.

So basicaly, my own belief is that there is a supreme being who made the universe and in doing so, he didnt create it as is, but, powerful as he is, he threw in rules and mechanisms (such as evolution) to coordinate it through changes.

This is my own point of you, and i don't give a **** if you agree with it or not.
ty gg gb
The end

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im just gona throw this out there.
if you believe in evolution in the big bang, the first most outrageously small molecule had to come from somewhere. where was it?

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